Comments on: Advice to people thinking about their next job

By: SDEGuy

SDEGuy — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 07:35:56 +0000

This is a good post, thanks. I left Microsoft after some time when I couldn’t find the right position. I had an excellent review history, but I had so much trouble transferring I left for another well-known WA software company.

I wanted to join Microsoft so bad I accepted a position less than where I wanted to be. Your career advice is spot-on.

Before leaving MSFT I made a resume 10 years into the future. I’m using it as a roadmap now and it’s working out well for me.

Thanks again for the post.

By: Eduardo Jezierski

Eduardo Jezierski — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 06:31:26 +0000

having just gone thru the process of changing jobs (from msft to not)… I’d also consider being conscious about the frames one uses for evaluation. E.g. maximizing upside and minimizing downside, self- vesrsus organization- or family- or customer- centricity, the work (journey) and the results (destination) you seek. there are many others axis. For me in the end it’s about making the decsion you take into a good one..after you take it.
…Good luck to everyone!
And I’ll use Kathy’s quote sometime soon
~ej

By: Bob

Bob — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 03:45:05 +0000

Yes, you’ve made my day with that saying – thanks!

“As Kathy Cramer says, try to make this the best problem you ever had”

By: jon

jon — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 01:45:19 +0000

Thanks, Bob. Agreed that if you’re in a really bad situation, the most important thing is getting out: sometimes it really does make sense to prioritize the short term.

One thing that’s very helpful in a situation like this is to take a step back and think about what your timeframe is. How long until you absolutely have to get out of the job or the impact on you (and/or your family) becomes unbearable? Try to be honest with yourself, and get perspectives of friends and loved ones — and colleagues, if it’s a situation where you can trust them. If it’s so unhealthy that you need to be out truly ASAP, then think about what your minimum bar for your next step is, and what’s your fastest path to that which still preserves longer-term options.

On the other hand, sometimes once you look at you able to say “well, I can put up with this stuff for four to six months if I have to, as long as I’m making progress getting to what’s next”. Then you can approach your job search as a project with milestones, and with luck use the extra time to discover more possibilities — and refine your direction as you explore.

In any case, it’s still worth thinking about the longer-term direction. If you’re in a horrible place right now, you may well be willing to sacrifice this … but maybe you won’t have to, at least not completely. As Kathy Cramer says, try to make this the best problem you ever had.

jon

By: jon

jon — Fri, 21 Dec 2007 00:58:30 +0000

Excellent question, Brian, and one that I’m wondering myself — despite my illustrious job title I was never actually a manager at Microsoft and there’s a lot of stuff like this where my answer is rather unexpectedly “dunno”.

Anybody else have experiences here?

In general, if it’s a role that interests you and you think you’re well-qualified for, it’s typically worth expressing interest and trying to get to the point where you can have a discussion with the hiring manager. Especially if you’re bringing something unique to the table, depending on the situation, there may be some flexibility … and if not, oh well, it still might prove useful in other ways.

Like I say, that’s a pretty general answer; anybody with more concrete experiences?

PS: this might also be a good question to ask on CareerCup.

By: Bob

Bob — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 23:10:00 +0000

Jon, your advices are wise and reasonable. Sometimes though it’s a matter of not looking toward your dream job but to escape from the current circumstances somewhere. Of course it may be a result of lack of planning in advance but still it would be great to have your recommendation for such extreme cases as well.
Happy holiday to you too!
Thanks!

By: Brian

Brian — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:34:50 +0000

Jon,
thanks for starting this and for the perspective.
Practical question to you and the other ex sr. managers. Recently left and got pinged to come back but heard of a “no more than 1 level gain per year out” HR rule. In your experience is that real / applied / absolute?

By: Scott

Scott — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 05:47:02 +0000

As someone who is looking for a tech job, I appreciate the insight.

Thanks.

On the intern issue, I took an intern position in college mostly due to the money (and not having to live with my parents for the summer), but ended up staying at the company for ten more years – so I can appreciate both sides.

By: jon

jon — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 21:11:15 +0000

Agreed — although for many people the money associated with an internship does make a real difference … when I was in college, whatever I saved over the summer made a big difference in how much disposable income I had the next year.

By the way, Gayle’s CareerCup site is an excellent resource for those thinking about jobs or going on interviews (and I’m not saying that just because she linked to me ). The interview reports are extremely valuable to give you an idea of what you might expect at various companies — and the skills you’ll need in various disciplines.

I have a certain respect for my ex-intern Julia Schwarz who, in addition to doing a fantastic job told me that building her resume isn’t really the most important thing to her.

Indeed! In general, I tend to think of resume-building as a side effect of working towards the kind of life I want to create. Still, even when it’s not the primary goal, it’s worth keeping in mind — often even somebody prioritizing like Julia can find ways to help advance her career.

Hey Jon, if she’s my ex-intern and I’m your ex-intern, does that make her your grand-ex-intern?

I think it’s “ex-intern once removed” or “second-ex-intern”. I can never remember which is which.

jon

By: Gayle Laakmann

Gayle Laakmann — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:11:46 +0000

I agree with what you're saying - you need to think about where you want to be in the long term, and then figure out how to get there. There's a balance between your short term goals and your long term goals. and many people look far too much at one or the other. When former students have asked my advice about which internship offer they should take, I often hear them bringing up the issue of salary - they're looking far too short term. Who cares how much you make in 12 weeks [unless you're really struggling to pay bills]? Even if all you care about is money, an internship where you learn a lot will make a much bigger different in the long term in your financial situation. That being said, I have a certain respect for my ex-intern Julia Schwarz who, in addition to doing a fantastic job told me that building her resume isn't really the most important thing to her. (Hey Jon, if she's my ex-intern and I'm your ex-intern, does that make her your grand-ex-intern?)